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Monday, October 11, 1999

JAIL HOUSE ROCK INTERVIEW PART 2 – Questions to be asked



JAILHOUSE ROCK info

If I missed a post/thread on Jailhouse Rock, please email me at stickgrappler@hotmail.com. When I have time I will scan in an article by Dennis Newsome about Testa, which is a Latin word which means "head" and is an African art on headbutting. The article was published in 1982 or so in Inside Kung Fu.

Thanks to Underground forum member Dempsy for re-interviewing Dennis Newsome using these questions from UG forum members.



JAIL HOUSE ROCK INTERVIEW PART 2 – Questions to be asked



From: Stovall

  • Does JHR incorporate striking to vital points? If so, are we talking obvious easy-to-hit targets (eyes, throat, sternum, groin), or does JHR incorporate more intricate striking like what can be found in some Asian arts (most noteably Chinese)?
  • I know that all of JHR's kicks are kept on the lowline, but what kind of kicks are we talking about? Hooking roundhouse kicks like Muay Thai, or low stomping oblique kicks like what can be found in many Southeast Asian styles?
  • Does Newsome object to sharing his art with non-Blacks, or is he more open than other JHR people?
  • Does JHR address the multiple opponent issue, and if so, what are the underlying principles and techniques?
  • In Lethal Weapon, there is a scene where Gary Bussey's character is being handcuffed and led away by two police officers. He uses what appears to be some sort of locking technique coupled with zoning and misdirection to free himself and disarm one of the policemen. Did Newsome choreagraph this sequence, and if so, is it an example of some of the "anti-cuffing" techniques that I have heard rumored to exist within some systems of JHR?
  • It's common knowledge that using weapons fashioned from whatever materials are available in the prison environment is very common. Does JHR teach methods of fashioning weapons as well as the efficient use and defense against such weapons?
  • In the book, "Martial Arts from Around the World", Newsome can be seen demonstrating a series of JHR techniques. One of the striking techniques he employs involves clasping one's hands behind the head and striking with the elbows. I'd like to know what this particular manuever is called, and is it (as it appears to be) one of the "staple" moves of JHR? Also, why are the hands kept clasped behind the head? Is this to put the arms into a position so as to block/cushion the head from wild hooking blows (common in the street) while keeping oneself in a position to return elbow strikes in an efficient manner?


From: Jinxer

  • Ask him if he has ever used JHR in a real prison. Ask him what the repurcussions were.
  • Ask him if there are any JHR techniques that defend against getting shanked. Actually, ask him how you use JHR to defend against a 2 man hit, which is common.
  • Ask him if he has or would use JHR against a member of Mexican Mafia, New Structure, BGF, White Pride or any other prison gang. If he would use JHR, how does he feel JHR would help him with the negative shit that would follow?
  • Ask him why people I have asked that did prison time have never heard of JHR.
  • Ask him when JHR is used, against cell-mates? On the yard? On work furlows? Ask him how the Shu program works with people that know JHR?

These are serious questions from somebody that knows a thing or two about doing time.

Jinx...



From: Smoke

Dempsy,could you ask Mr. Newsome if:

  • JHR teaches gun and stick disarms?
  • Also what it's approach to ground fighting?




From: Tim

  • I would like to know why if it is a secret African American fighting style and that no nonwhites can be taught it would he choreograph fight sequences in a movie were the star was white? It seems contradictory to not allow white people to learn it, but when it comes to making money, that is all out the window.
  • Also, ask him if JHR is (or has been0 featured on OZ (the show on HBO)?
  • Also I have come in contact with police officers (Jim Grover, writes for Guns and Ammo mag.) who know some of the techniques, how is that possible?




From: Stickgrappler

  • Please ask Mr. Newsome about "testa". I read an article from 1982 Inside Kung Fu in which he was interviewed about this African headbutting style. Does JHR incorpate testa?
  • Also, ask for an example of a "gansta locking" sequence. Mr. newsome likened gangsta locking to wing chun but can he describe a specific sequence?




From: Ron_RPL96

  • Be sure to ask where there is anything in writing on Jailhouse Rock/ Jailhouse Boxing.
  • Also, are there any styles of JHR/ JHB that originate from Huntsville, Texas? I go to school at Sam Houston State University, and we are just a few blocks away from the main prison.
  • Please ask Mr. Newsome if he can verify that the technique described to me (which I in turn shared with the forum) is a JHR technique.
  • Also ask if there are any JHR styles originating in Texas.
  • I am also curious as to the 'anti-handcuffing' techniques. Do they exist or was that Holiwood fantasy for Lethal Weapon??




From: Kirik

  • Is there any other unarmed styles that are taught in prisons? I don't want to upset a soul with this line of questioning, but it is a simple fact that prison populations split up along racial lines. JHR is clearly the devise of black inmates. From what I understand, Hispanic inmates box.
  • I guess my question is, what do the palefaces do?




From: Iceman

  • How is JHR taught? In other words, how has it been kept alive in the prison system and passed down.
  • Different Prison systems apparently have their own "styles"...why and how?




From: ripsnorter

  • what do these jhr guys do IF the fight does hit the ground?
  • do they have a particular style of knifefighting?
  • do they spar?how do they spar? do they incorporate boxing into the style?
  • do they use closed fists or open hand strikes?
  • will jhr always be a preserve of the african american??
  • is jhr so devestating that they wanna keep it under wraps??
  • any war stories to underline the effectiveness?
  • finally i am skeptical about jhr-it's being portrayed as another "secret deadly fighting art" and we all know how effective those type of arts are




From: slowmo

  • When in prison, what would be the most common attack you would have to watch out for, and how would you defend against it?
  • Where is the most common place for an attack?
  • Based on your knowledge of different fighting styles, which would probably be the most beneficial if you didn't know JHR in prison?
  • What is your #1 priority when fighting in prison? To kill? if you DO kill someone in prison, even in self-defense, and he is the member of a gang (duh) what kind of backlash can you expect? (kinda hard to put what I'm trying to find out in words, but is it smart to kill a guy if it just means that you'll have another 200 guys lining up to kill you?)




Other 52/Jailhouse Rock posts:





NOTE: Posted 10/12/2015 as of 10/11/1999 to mirror date of my original post from my old archives which has been deleted by Tripod without my knowledge. You can see the Internet Archive's link JAIL HOUSE ROCK INTERVIEW PART 2 – Questions to be asked of its snapshot of my old archives.

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Jailhouse Rock technique post by Ron_RPL96



JAILHOUSE ROCK info

If I missed a post/thread on Jailhouse Rock, please email me at stickgrappler@hotmail.com. When I have time I will scan in an article by Dennis Newsome about Testa, which is a Latin word which means "head" and is an African art on headbutting. The article was published in 1982 or so in Inside Kung Fu.

Thanks to Underground forum member Ron_RPL96 for all his work in getting this info public.



Jailhouse Rock technique post by Ron_RPL96



Subject: I learned a jailhouse rock technique
From: Ron_RPL96
Date: 29-Sep-99 | 02:16 PM

Hello!

There have already been a few posts on the subject of Jailhouse Rock. Last night I learned one of the techniques and I am passing it along here.

The person I learned this from, first of all, does not refer to JHR as JHR, but as Jailhouse Boxing. He also said that the connection between JHR and Capoeira is tenuous, as Jailhouse Boxing has no "large, circular kicks" (e.g. roundhouse, cyclone, hook, etc.).

He did, however, see the connection as both are arts rooted in the need for enslaved people to defend themselves. Capoeira, I was told, has the large, circular kicks because its practitioners were usually bound at the wrists.

The main philosophy in JHR/ JHB is to utilize your surroundings (i.e. the walls in a close space) to your advantage.

Also, he said that Jailhouse Boxing concentrates heavily on defending against armed (blade) attacks.

Anyway, the technique that I learned was how to throw a Jailhouse Boxing punch. Basically, you put one foot on the wall behind you and as you punch, you push off the wall. I tried this at home, and found that I could cover maybe a 5 to 6 foot distance with a good, sound punch. The front kick variation works on the same principle.

- Ron

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From: ripsnorter
Date: 30-Sep-99 | 02:13 PM

anybody know where i can get more info on denis newsome and jailhouse?

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From: Reynaldo
Date: 30-Sep-99 | 02:43 PM

"The main philosophy in JHR/ JHB is to utilize your surroundings (i.e. the walls in a close space) to your advantage."

makes sense..that's what I culled from the book...tremedous infighting emphasis

who showed you? and where?

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From: Ron_RPL96
Date: 30-Sep-99 | 03:58 PM

The person who showed me is my instructor, who is actually a former policeman. He showed me the technique in the dojo.

Sad to say, he admitted he knows very little about JHR/ JHB and said that very little exists in writing about the discipline. He only knew of those two techniques and that knife defenses exist (I don't know if he knows any of them).

Anyway, Kirik, maybe you can add the JHR punch to the Fighter's Notebook!!! :-)

- Ron

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From: valetudo22
Date: 30-Sep-99 | 07:14 PM

Dennis Newsome was one of the fight choreographers on Lethal Weapon 1, along with Rorion Gracie.

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From: Ron_RPL96
Date: 30-Sep-99 | 10:05 PM

Hello Ripsnorter,

The Underground Forum is the only place where I have seen anything on Jailhouse Rock/ Jailhouse Boxing. The only other source was my instructor, who is a former policeman and police instructor.

Anyway, Jailhouse Rock is in my mind often because my college is only two blocks away from a major prison in Texas. I go to school at Sam Houston State University which is reknowned for its Criminal Justice program. The Huntsville State Prison is only three blocks or so away. You can see some of the prisoners during the day cleaning trash and doing lawnwork outside.

I would check out Stickgrappler's site.

- Ron

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From: Stickgrappler
Date: 30-Sep-99 | 11:30 PM

From the Lethal Weapon 4 site http://www.lw4.com/b4l4/cmp/lw1/lw1prod2.html:

"A second technical advisor, DENNIS NEWSOME, brought Jailhouse Rock to the fight sequence. An indigenous Black American fighting art, it was started in the 19th Century America, when slaves were first institutionalized and needed to defend themselves. It evolved secretly within the U.S. penal system, with regional styles reflecting the physical realities in specific institutions, e.g., Comstock style, San Quentin style, and others."

-----

Besides Dennis Newsome and Rorion/GJJ, Cedric Adams = Capoiera was also brought in.




Other 52/Jailhouse Rock posts:





NOTE: Posted 10/12/2015 as of 10/11/1999 to mirror date of my original post from my old archives which has been deleted by Tripod without my knowledge. You can see the Internet Archive's link Jailhouse Rock technique post by Ron_RPL96 of its snapshot of my old archives.

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JAILHOUSE ROCK - Very Brief Summary by dempsy



JAILHOUSE ROCK info

If I missed a post/thread on Jailhouse Rock, please email me at stickgrappler@hotmail.com. When I have time I will scan in an article by Dennis Newsome about Testa, which is a Latin word which means "head" and is an African art on headbutting. The article was published in 1982 or so in Inside Kung Fu.

Thanks to Underground forum member Dempsy for all his work in getting this info public.



VERY BRIEF SUMMARY



From: dempsy
Date: 20-Aug-99 | 11:49 AM

HEY I did talk to newsome GREAT GUY! i posted a LONG reply to the jail house question

here is a very brief summery (since i am at work hehe)

ok 1. its tough it has tech in all 4 ranges.

2. there are different systems of jail house rock. most are named for all diff things like where they started and other analogies. like Newsome does the 52. many think this is because there are 52 moves this is wrong its 52 because of the card game 52 the motto is "the cards land where they may" like the tech in "52".

3. NO white people can learn it. Newsome said he only had heard of one white guy who had learned it. this is due to it being thought of as a secret weapon of the african people. they dont show it to others cause then it could be used against them... sounds like kung fu situation way back when.

4.some of the tech they use. the "L" sounds like a frame as its used in combat sambo from the description newsome gave. also they have "gangsta locks" that sounds to be just like trapping. the moves are very brutal.

5. whats it based on? the art of the africans in the first prisons here in the us. capoeria's parent art maybe? it evolved into its own thing though.

6. whats it look like? i have heard accountts from newsome that silat and capoeria bear the most resemblance. also others have told me who claim to have seen it that it looks like silat. which makes sense because capoeria angola the real old traditional system looks like some silat forms.

7. Newsome said that it blows asian arts out of the water and that he trains other main stream arts but with his life on the line he would count on JHR first.

8.WHY dont we see it anywhere? well convicts and ex cons dont make the best commercial martial arts teachers, plus they dont want to share the secrets with blacks half the time and virtually never with non-blacks (newsome said black refers to any one of african descent which includes carribean people and brazilians)

10. WHere to see it? well he choreographed leathal weapon 1 so look for bits of it in there, also Newsome claims that tyson knows at least the basics of at least on JHR system and that if you watch the Bone crushe smith fight with tyson you can see him do some moves. he said that alot of people who know it go into boxing and use the art to give them an edge.

11. Where to find it? JAIL! and after that inner city black boxing gyms MAYBE but no one says they know it everyone plays dumb. Newsome himself DOES NOT teach this art comercially. the gang bangers and younger street thugs DO NOT know the art. Newsome had negative things to say about the level of fighting skill of those people.

12.an interesting story: a guy named mother dear on the east coast took out 9 inmates also using jail house rock, by himself. now this is impressive supposedly because 9 guys is tough but 9 JHR guys is supposed to be impossible. but he did and his rep supposedly went as far as the west coast jails. A guy later on the street lasted 5 min with mother dear and when he went into the joint he was like a legend just for lasting that long. so mother dear is like the rickson gracie of JHR lol/.

OH newsome also said DONT wrestle on the street.

sorry this was so short i have to run

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From: Burton
Date: 20-Aug-99 | 09:16 PM

I met Dennis Newsome, and he was not polite to me or Marc Denny, presumably due to our lack of African Heritage. I find it funny, though, because I have trained with Zulu warriors in South Africa on 3 different occasions, and they were extremely nice and eager to share. They treat me like family each time I show up in the village, without any racial tension. Just a group of people who love to practice fighting. I hate this idiotic racial stuff, and I don't think we should condone a racist attitude by making it sound like it is his right to exclude people because of their skin color. That is my rant! Enjoy!

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From: m.g
Date: 21-Aug-99 | 04:34 PM

Inside Kungfu published a book which featured different styles from around the world. In this book they had a section for Brazil. The Gracie's (Rorion, Royce, Renzo, Rickson, Rillion, Rolker, and Carlos Machado) demostrated their style. Now Newsome was one of the demostrators in the Brazilian section show the style of Capoeira. In the section for Africa Newsome is there demostrating the style of Re efi Areh Ehsee, which as already mention is a Ethiopian style. Then in the section for America Newsome is shown demostrating the style of Jailhouse Rock. Now all the techniques Newsome demostrated seemed pretty good. The Capoeria one was okay but I was impressed with the Ethiopian style as well as Jailhouse Rock. It does seem to be very Silat looking. But it is hard to say whether Jailhouse Rock is actually a system or if it is name attached to a type of fighting which is common in prison. Who to say that Jail- house rock is nothing more than an already establish type of fighting just renamed or adapted to the life of prison. I just can't see how prisoners could develop something that sophisticated in such harsh conditions. I think Newsome took his knowledge of Capoeira and that Ethiopian style and then called jailhouse rock.

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From: Real grounder
Date: 23-Aug-99 | 05:26 AM

Mother dear is fiction, so is the fairy tale of destroying 9 fighters. All prison fights that begin behind you, don't use empty hands. All fights that face you are multiple foes. Although Mother dears cousin was abducted by UFO's.

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From: dempsy
Date: 23-Aug-99 | 10:05 AM

I added the mother dear story as an example of JHR's legendary fighter. like kung fu, karate, etc etc. they all have one and they are just plain fun to hear. I mean if we can listen about blind kung fu masters who tear out eyeballs and show them to you we can listen about mother dear. lol/





Other 52/Jailhouse Rock posts:





NOTE: Posted 10/12/2015 as of 10/11/1999 to mirror date of my original post from my old archives which has been deleted by Tripod without my knowledge. You can see the Internet Archive's link JAILHOUSE ROCK - Very Brief Summary by dempsy of its snapshot of my old archives.

at No comments:

JAILHOUSE ROCK info




JAILHOUSE ROCK info



If I missed a post/thread on Jailhouse Rock, please email me at stickgrappler@hotmail.com. When I have time I will scan in an article by Dennis Newsome about Testa, which is a Latin word which means "head" and is an African art on headbutting. The article was published in 1982 or so in Inside Kung Fu.

Thanks to Underground forum member Dempsy for all his work in getting this info public.


Subject: JAIL HOUSE ROCK INTERVIEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: dempsy
Date: 23-May-99 | 07:09 AM

Ok here it is guys! Let me start by saying thank you to Mr.Newsome for his time and willingness to share his wealth of knowledge with us all. He is aware that the information from our conversation would be posted here. Some things that were said off the record are ommited, however. I think we should all than him for helping us to satisfy our burning curiosity about jailhouse rock. The material presented here is paraphrased, in all honesty it went by so fast and I was so excitted that I couldnt get it all down fast enough. I have broken the info down in this format.

  1. About Denise Newsome
  2. What is Jail house rock?
  3. History of jail house rock
  4. jail house rock systems
  5. The rep is the rank
  6. the 52
  7. where can you learn it?
  8. where can you see it?
  9. other notes of interest.


-1.About Mr.Newsome

Denise Newsome is one of the worlds leading authorities on Jail house rock and the african martial arts. He is currently located on the west coast and is active in the capoeria angola Sao Bantu Grande system. a very aggressive form of capoeria. Mr.Newsome also practices a system of jail house rock known as the

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Subject: RE: INFO
From: dempsy
Date: 24-May-99 | 12:34 AM

I put a post up regarding the absense of the interview notes. I am working on a webtv, and its crap. I wrote this big long thing and lost t twice. I didnt want to try a third time. I am waiting till monday to work on it on my PC at work. That way I wont lose it. Sorry for the wait guys But I promise to put it up.

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Subject: JAIL HOUSE ROCK
From: dempsy
Date: 25-May-99 | 01:35 PM

Hey guys, I know I promised, but i am home sick. I got some troublng news from the docor last night, and I am not up for going to work, so i cant get to a pc. I am gonna give a super brief account of my interview cause i promised, and when i can i will post the whole thing

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Subject: RE: INFO
From: dempsy
Date: 25-May-99 | 01:38 PM

WHERED IT COME FROM?

It came from africa, it might come from the same parent art as capoeriia, it ight not no one is sure, rummor is it was a bantu art.

when the slaves where freed, the whites in south began to put them in jails as a form of prosecution. In jail some of the inmates knew this original art. In jail it evolved due to spacial limiits and specific needs

Whats it CALLED?/

the name is jail house rock---but thats general like grappling, or karate. there are alot of styles of it. they all developed in different places, under different conditions, and accordingly look different and hve different techniques

some of the styles Mr.Newsome mentioned are named after prisons, the streets, or other metaphores. Comstock, Mount Meg, are named for prisons, 42nd is named after a street, and barnyard, "52" and closing gates are named for metaphores. the 52--the style Mr.Newsome does is called 52. because of the card game...you throw the cards and they "land where ever they may" thats a metaphore for the tech.

WHATS IT LOOK LIKE???

Mr. Newsome said most are striking styles, but there are some more wrestling oriented, like mount meg. the 52 is the one he is most familiar with, here goes a description.

it uses the hands, elbows, knees, head butts, some kicks (ALways low) and the "entire" body to strike with. Practitioners learn in depth knowledge of pressure points and vital strikes

also there is swipes (foot sweeps) and Gangsta Locks (mr.newsome likened these to wingchun trapping) which are imobiization techniques. Another intresting thing is the "L". It is an offensive and defensive posture. From his description I can only think to compare it to the "frame" used in combat sombo. I talked to another guy who claimed to have seen it, and he ays it does look like a combat sambo stance. Mr.Newsome sai the art is very deceptive and free moving. there are no set techniques like inkarate kata, but there are governing underlying principles. He said there is a method to the madness of jail house rock.

When I asked Mr. Newsome if it looks like any other art, he said no. he did however say that some elements of thai boxing is similar, but crude in comparrison. Also he said that in viewing a silat demonstration he saw some elements that were vaugley similar.

WHERE TO SEE IT???

go to the video store and rent leathel weapon. he along with cedrick adams and rorion gracie, choreographed it. He says it doesnt look like straight jail house rock, but mel gibsons scenes have the flavor. Also go rent Tyson V Bone crusher smith. THATS RIGHT!! Tyson knows some of the art. Mr.Newsome said that if you lok closely you see tyson when he gets frustrated slip in some jail house rock. Look for unorthadox moves and you'll spot it. Also if you rent the movie rooftops. they show "UpRocking" which is the dance aspect of jail house rock. It can still be used for combat. ad is much less secretive than JHR. Up rocking is similar to capoeria but it uses hands more than feet, and the foot work pattern is a reverse "Ginga" or capoeria foot work pattern.

WHERE TO LEARN IT???

SOrry guys! this is an underground system. unless you go to jail, hang out at under ground fights or are family to an ex con, chances are you will never learn it. If you are not of African heritage chances go from slim to virtually none. The art is the art of the african who needs it for survival. Much like the asians decades ago, who would not teach outside their race. the analogy is that you do not give your enemy your best weapon. in prisons no matter who you are cool with, when shit hits the fan, the teams get together based on color, bottom line fact. In fact some styles of JHR wont teach people who know other styles. for the same reason. for example....mr.newsome said that he could ot learn the system affiliated with the gang known as the black gurilla family because he was not a member of the gang (or any for the record he is a hard working man who is not a criminal or ex con).

Mr.Newsome said that in all his years he has heard of only two white people learning the art, and thats just rummors. OH he is also featuredin the book martial arts around the world. thats about as close as most of us will ever get to the art. He said that if you want to learn it word of mouth and being a member of certain circles is the only way. there are no commerical schools. Mr.Newsoe teaches a hand full of students but it is closed door at his invitation only. He MUST know the person and their character. well that is a VERY brief overview of my conversation withmr.newsome. MUCH has been left out. I will post more wen i get to a PC and my health is better. I want to thank Mr.Newsome again for his time and patience with my questions. He is a super nice guy, and a wealth of historical knowledge/

Mr.Newsome said that in all his years he has heard of only two white people learning the art, and thats just rummors. OH he is also featuredin the book martial arts around the world. thats about as close as most of us will ever get to the art. He said that if you want to learn it word of mouth and being a member of certain circles is the only way. there are no commerical schools. Mr.Newsoe teaches a hand full of students but it is closed door at his invitation only. He MUST know the person and their character. well that is a VERY brief overview of my conversation withmr.newsome. MUCH has been left out. I will post more wen i get to a PC and my health is better. I want to thank Mr.Newsome again for his time and patience with my questions. He is a super nice guy, and a wealth of historical knowledge




Other 52/Jailhouse Rock posts:

    Will be edited in shortly
NOTE: Posted 10/12/2015 as of 10/11/1999 to mirror date of my original post from my old archives which has been deleted by Tripod without my knowledge. You can see the Internet Archive's link JAILHOUSE ROCK info of its snapshot of my old archives.

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