Mark Tripp's Combatives 8
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From: MTripp
Date: 10-May-00 | 07:17 AM
Understanding the Shoot and the "Butt Scoot"
I guess some folks are having a problem here; and my students are starting to think some of you are very dense; so lets look at this.
An assault is NOT a duel. You are going to have little or no warning. It will be nothing like the movies or the dojo.
My job is to give you the best chance to end this and keep your life. So here is a very simple question...
If you are attacked from behind what are you going to do?
Now, if you train students with VERY specific methods to deal with specific attacks you are going to have a real problem. Mainily because by the time the student figures out what the exact attack is, the 3 to 5 second window has closed and they are dead.
Thats right; you have 3 to 5 SECONDS to end this thing. You have about ONE SECOND to kill his attack and blast him with yours.
Now, unless you have eyes in the back of your head, you have NO idea how he is attacking, or if he has a weapon. ANY standing turn will keep you in the "kill zone" and you will get blasted.
BUT, if you are taught ONE simple concept; the SECOND you perceive a threat you are going to drop down and turn into a single or a double; NOW you have changed the game.
You do NOT wait for the hold to get on or to see what is what. We have found that the droping dead weight causes the person to lose their grip and you can easily hit the shoot.
UNLESS; you drill this over and over and the dojo "attacker" begins to get used to the technique. DO NOT allow this! The guy on the street is going to have NO idea what is going to happen, and this will work, Drill it!!!
As to the "butt scoot". There are three places where this is VERY important. Lets take the drop and shoot.
If your shot "fails" you can fall to your side and begin kicking the leg of the bad guy. Using the "kick then get up" part of it you can get back to your feet safely.
If you do hit the shot; WHY GET INTO A GROUND GRAPPLING MATCH??? Roll to your side; kick him in the face and get up! Get this; because you have trained to get up this way you will get to your feet MUCH faster than the other guy. Sambo teaches a fallimg man will always attempt to regain ballance. Hence his arms will be away from his head. He will also put them down to get up. Getting in a clean boot to the head shot is a good thing for our side!
Also, keep in mind if you throw him down, stay standing, and kick him in the head; YOU are in trouble. Most places feel that is not defending yourself as the attacker was "down". BUT; if you BOTH are down....
Still; I'd go for a field goal with his head on the get up... but I am not telling you to do that
Finally, you use the but scoot position and kicks from same ANY time you blow a technique. Your throw goes bad (either fails or you both hit the ground); you miss the shoot; your control isn't working, etc; BAIL and start kicking him. Your job is to make this take longer than 3 to 5 seconds. You are screaming "fire" the whole time. HE is the one with the time table here; you only have to stall him until help arrives; OR, you get your PPD into play.
This is the OTHER reason for the Butt Scoot. It frees the hands to get your PPD into this fight.
Advanced students can learn the many Sambo leg hooks and trips from that position; but the basic comcept is to drop turn and shoot from ANY rear assault; and use the butt scoot for any blown technique of that type; as well as after ANY throw where both of you have hit the ground.
Next time; the Guard and its correct use in combatives.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:17 AM
What is the butt scoot? Can you refer us to any video or book that has a description? Does the Fighter's Notebook show it and if so, what pages? Thank you.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:20 AM
The Gracies call it "the ground get up". It is a way to defend and kick from the ground as well as using a kick to get up with.
It is in various Sambo and even very old Judo texts. Others will have to tell you where you can find it; I know Renzo goes into it on his tapes; but not sure where else to look.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Skorzeny
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:47 AM
Pedro Carvalho's first tape series from WMA also has some explanation of how to do a butt scoot in context of a street fight (in this case, you are sitting on a beach minding your own business and somebody decides to jump you - guess this happens a lot in Rio!).
Skorzeny
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:50 AM
Butt scooting is basically sitting on the ground keeping your legs pointing in the direction of your attacker, who may well be standing. You need to be ready to defend against strikes, ready to kick and, above all, ready to stand up from this position.
Your best combative thread yet, MTripp.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:09 AM
Great stuff! unfortantly your guys are right, somone will overlook this stuff and wind up gettting hurt!
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:28 AM
thanks (starting to understand :o)
Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:29 AM
Coach,in the Fighter's Notebook, is the butt scoot the technique called "Standing up" on pages I-26 and I-27?
Can anyone who has the Fighter's notebook tell by Mark's description of the butt scoot if in fact pages I-26 and I-27 is what Coach is calling the butt scoot?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:38 AM
Mario,
Don't have it in front of me...and coach has the FN as well I'm sure it is...I know its in there. FN does a great job of showing how to kick from the ground.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:55 AM
definitely some butt scouting going on on I-26/27...not sure if it is elsewhere as well though...
Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 10-May-00 | 11:19 AM
I'll check and get back;
If so it strengthens my point that it is a MUST have for combative training!
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Tap This
Date: 10-May-00 | 11:52 AM
Great thread Mtripp.
Jason
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Stovall
Date: 10-May-00 | 12:08 PM
This stuff is sage advice. Absolutely fantastic. Anybody got all this saved?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Tony Bananas
Date: 10-May-00 | 01:06 PM
ttt
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 10-May-00 | 01:18 PM
I seen this technique used by an old friend Robert against my cousin when they were fighting. Me and my friends used to have contest to see who was the best fighter in the group. Robert was a small guy 5`5 140ish almost always rushed with a kick to the nuts and ended up going to the ground on his back to defend himself if his kick didnt work. Good little fighter Robert was. I think this is what the Butt scoot is.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 10-May-00 | 01:21 PM
Mr. Tripp, will you be putting out a book or some Vids on these great ideas you have? I think it would be a best seller.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 10-May-00 | 02:24 PM
Yeah,
Coach Tripp has two videos available through John Saylor's Shingitai Jujitsu Assoc. and, Chris Herzog a.k.a. Chzog on this forum has a seminar video of Mark Tripp, vol.1 available through him. That should get you started. BTW Chris, what's up with vol.2?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Kai Tremeche
Date: 10-May-00 | 03:00 PM
Damn, this is a great thread... Never thought of things this way completely. The butt scoot is what you need to get that PDD out, whether it's a knife, mace or a pistol. So the idea is shoot, bomb, strike if you have to to get away... or bail if you fail to the butt scoot and scream like mad/get your gun...
Damn good thread..
Peace
Kai
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Kai Tremeche
Date: 10-May-00 | 03:20 PM
P.S. I REALLY hope someone's Archiving these.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 06:57 PM
actually a book of the: history of judo threads, taking it back threads, combative threads (did I miss one?), would be pretty cool...it would be a book about judo, but not like others...
Subject: RE: INFO
From: RatBastahd
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:51 PM
I have all but 7 saved. waiting for more people to respond. With MTripps permission, I was going to web page it all.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: sharkelephant
Date: 11-May-00 | 12:02 AM
is the butt scoot a hip heist happeneing while you are trying to simultaneously stand up?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Maxamillion
Date: 11-May-00 | 12:45 AM
Coach Tripp, could you please elaborate a bit more on the "drop and shoot" and on how you recommend positioning yourself from there to being able to kick the perp? Please, just a bit more detail for those of us who have no imagination and are unfamiliar with your techniques?
Max
Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 11-May-00 | 05:36 AM
Any good book on wrestling will detail the workings of "shooting" single and double legs. As well as the "mets" (skuki nage).
First I would spend a lot of time learning how to get these moves; and finish off these moves.
Once that is learned you will prastice turning into your opponent as you drop; you will be in position (depending on how far you get turned) for the double leg (full turn) single leg (half turn) or the mets (small turn).
I had hoped there would be enough tapes out there of NHB fights to see the butt scoot, but I will try and describe this, ANYONE please jump in and help here.
You are on your side (for this we will say right side). Contact point is your right hip and right hand. Your job is to keep both of your feet between you and the bad guy. Left arm is up to ward off any leaping attempts.
Now keep spinning and kicking him. At this point your top leg (left in this case) will do most of the work. The bottom leg (right in this case) is used to get up. To do this you kick with the right leg as you put the bottom of the left leg on the ground. Without putting the right leg down, you lift your hips and pull your leg back and around and put it flat on the ground too.
You should be in a strong base at this point and sideways to the bad guy. Your right leg is now chambered for a strong kick.
If anyone can make this clearer or add something please do!
Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 11-May-00 | 07:42 AM
Great post, Mark.
And just to mention - the "Position of Assurance" as it is called in RMA, detailed by Mark above, is also a preparatory launch to a standing sprint.
Frat.,
ss.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 11-May-00 | 08:06 AM
MTripp, Chzog, or SSonnon
Is the technique in the Fighter's Notebook called "Standing up" on pages I-26 and I-27 what you guys are referring to as the butt scoot or the position of assurance?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 11-May-00 | 08:21 AM
I think so; my copy is at the dojo but I will check today
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 11-May-00 | 10:47 AM
Coaches seminar tape 2 will be availble soon!! As will a few others going through them now tpo give them approprpitate titles =) Soon very soon! i Should have the Semianr Vol2 ready by end of next week!
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 11-May-00 | 12:48 PM
I think there is something like this in one of your tapes SSonnon. I forget whick one, but I remember seeing it.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 11-May-00 | 12:59 PM
Yeah,
It is on the introductory tape with Gen. Retuinskih.
Frat.,
ss.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 11-May-00 | 01:01 PM
Actually, come to think of it, both "shoot n scoot" tactics are presented...
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Stickgrappler
Date: 11-May-00 | 01:50 PM
Kai Tremeche,
i'm on it. http://stickgrappler.tripod.com - not up yet.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: beau
Date: 11-May-00 | 02:44 PM
great, prectical thread, thanks for sharing!
Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 12-May-00 | 07:37 AM
Coach, Chzog, or Scott,
Did any of you guys get the chance to look through the Fighter's Notebook and see if I-26/I-27 is what Coach is calling the butt scoot?
For other Mark Tripp entries, please check out:
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 1
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 2 (Who was W.E. Fairbairn?)
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 3 (Level of Force)
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 4 (Goshinjutsu)
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 5 (Atemi-Waza)
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 6 (Balance)
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 7 (Technique selection)
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 9 (Grip Strength)
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 10 (Teaching Self-defense)
- Mark Tripp - Combatives 11 (Women's Self-defense)
- Mark Tripp's Combat Judo basic course
NOTE: Posted as-of Jun 21, 2000 on Nov 22, 2013 to mirror my old archives - http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/mtcombat8.html.
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