From Underground's Boxing Q&A
Subject: The most important punch in your arsenal
From: Rastus
Date: 24-Aug-00 | 05:47 PM
Technique: Hands in the read position. Shoot the punch straight out, locking the elbow and shoulder. Chin should be safely tucked under the left shoulder, right hand up and protecting the right side of the jaw. Punch comes straight back, not down and back up. Be very careful to return the fist straight back to the ready position, not dip it under and up. A right cross could be following! The punch should be stiff, but not extended as a knock-out blow. Thomas Hearns has a fantastic jab. Mike Tyson, when he throws it, has a devistating jab.
Now, the top ten reasons to jab -
- Ruin the opponent's timing. When an opponent catches or sees our jab, his timing and mind set must re-focus, re-adjust, and re-set.
- Keep the pressure. Jabbing with mean intent keeps us on the role of predator. It’s very disconcerting to have a guy with a dominant, stiff jab putting pressure on you.
- Set up combinations. That flash in the eyes, that initiation immediately puts the opponent on the defensive, allowing us our offensive assault. The jab is the punch that opens us up to our bigger punches. Thomas hearns jabbed at the forhead to lift up his opponent's chin for the knockout right cross. Jab to the stomach to lower the guard, then right cross to the chin, followed by a left hook to the liver, doubling up to the head, ending with a jab.
- Establish dominance. Step into the danger zone and establish the jab. The opponent may back away, setting the roles of the fight or jab with us to challenge our superiority.
- Counter his jab. Stay one strategy ahead by countering his jab soon after yours is established. When the opponent attempts to engage us in the battle of the jab, keep one step ahead by working off of his jab. A)When his jab comes, slip left and shoot an inside left hook. B.) Slip to the right for a body punch jab and come overhead to catch a lazy left hand. C) Slap down the jab down with the right hand and come straight with a right cross and move forward to offset your opponent. Remember, this is why we can’t be lazy retrieving our jab. A right cross could be following!
- Force your opponent to attack, then counter. Jack Johnson said that, being a counter-puncher, he would use his jab to force his opponent to attack, from which he could counter.
- Safety. Beginning and ending combinations with the jab helps us stay safe and un-hit. It allows us to end a combination and re-group. Exiting the danger zone with a good jab helps to extinguish the opponent’s counter offensive.
- Energy. It requires the least energy to throw the punch, and it is the most important punch.
- Finesse. You can out-finesse your opponent with the jab. Timing, doubling up, up and down, down and up. Adding finesse to the jab is necessary. If your jab is robotic or predictable, a smart opponent will time it and launch an attack around it. Making it shrewd and unpredictable helps to befuddle the opponent.
- Mobility. It’s the only punch that’s not committing the body in some way. You have full control of your lateral movement at the blink of the eye. Any other punch commits the body far more, temporarily depriving us of our mobility.
So keep jabbing... The difference between a good fighter and a great fighter is usually the jab.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: menapace
Date: 24-Aug-00 | 06:30 PM
Great post. Rastus, you're a big Hearns fan huh?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 24-Aug-00 | 06:37 PM
menapace:
I must admit... I was a big fan of the Hit Man. Glad you liked the post.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: dave.c
Date: 24-Aug-00 | 08:22 PM
Rastus,
Couldn't agree more. Most fighters today don't jab enough or at all. A solid jab is vital.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: simkin
Date: 25-Aug-00 | 03:57 AM
I like
- Use it to read your opponent. Kinda relates to #s 3, 6, and 2 above, but I use my jab to guage my opponents reaction. After a few jabs I have a clue about what my opponent's defense is like. Oh, he's not moving his head so it'll be there for my cross, especially if I feint the jab. Or, hey, he's trying to slip in low, hope he likes my uppercut. Etc...
Good post, btw :)
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 25-Aug-00 | 12:34 PM
simkin:
Excellent points...reading your opponent by his reactions to the jab. Great point about feinting too. (almost wrote "fainting" ;-)
Like hooking off the jab. If you see his right hand is moving well away from his jaw, converting the jab to a left hook is a great way to punish that bad habit.
Would you give some examples of how you read your opponent with the jab?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: simkin
Date: 25-Aug-00 | 04:31 PM
two things to keep in mind, first off I fight southpaw, second off the class where I do most of my sparring is an american-style kickboxing class, and most of these guys aren't the greatest when it comes to dealing with punches...
To read my opponents with my jab, the first thing I have to do is make it count. I always try to make the first punch I throw a jab, and make do my best to get it snapped into the face so my opponent knows I'm not just putting my hand out. Even when it doesn't connect clean, the idea is to get the message across that I'm serious with my jab.
I always keep my eyes on the little depression at the top of the sternum, below the chin, so his whole body is in my peripheral vision. When I'm trying to read him off the jab I pay particular attention to his hands, elbows and chin. Some of the things I notice people in my class doing are things like slapping my jab down with the lead hand (I almost never get people stopping it with their rear, which I think is weird but it's prolly because I'm a southie), trying to slip it after they've seen it a coupla times, backing up sometimes leaning which I love, or firing back with their own jab.
I notice that if I pay attention to how people react to my jab I get clues on how they react to my punching overall. If someone's backing up as/after I jab, they're generally backing up as I throw other stuff, if they slap at my jab as it comes in they seem to use their hands a lot to fend off my punches in general, and if they fire back with a jab of their own I usually know I could be in trouble unless I'm having a good counter-punch day. Etc, etc...
The other class where I do some of my sparring is basically an MMA class. It's a lot harder to read these people with my jab because of the leg kicks and takedowns. In that class the leg kicks are somewhat comparable to the jab when it comes to reading an opponent.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: striker18
Date: 27-Aug-00 | 11:48 PM
Fantastic thread Rastus! If anyone else remembers, a while ago I was having trouble with my jab and didn't really even like to do it. But after taking the boxing forums advice I have been practicing it a lot (on my own) and am actually beginning to enjoy it. It is making my whole game a lot better, because I am starting to develop a jab now instead of just having an overhand right and a left hook.
Why doesn't more jabbing go on in NHB?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: menapace
Date: 28-Aug-00 | 02:06 PM
Striker 18, Bas Rutten said he never jabs in NHB because it lacks stopping power and it's too easy for a wrestler to take you down.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: striker18
Date: 28-Aug-00 | 10:51 PM
Yeah I saw that on his tape set...but Bas is more of a Thai fighter than a boxer.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 29-Aug-00 | 01:42 AM
I actually met Bas Rutten at the House of Blues in Hollywood for the Cult concert. Very cool guy, and we drank like fish.
I asked him why people don't jab more in MMA. He said that a wrestler will just shoot and take you down.
We just disagreed on this point. I mean, the jab is the least commital strike in MMA. If you're going to be taken down with a jab, you'll be taken down with any punch.
Also, you CAN stop a guy with a jab - but it must be a proper, stiff jab, not a feely, flicky jab. Sticking a tight jab and locking the shoulder and elbow is a GREAT way to stop someone coming in, while not sacrificing one's mobility, IMO.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Slick
Date: 29-Aug-00 | 12:41 PM
Great thread, Rastus. I always enjoy reading your stuff ...
Subject: RE: INFO
From: felipe123
Date: 29-Aug-00 | 03:20 PM
Rastus, Very informative, this is the best forum I've been to and yours are the best posts I've read so far. What about varying the head position every once in a while to present a different target?
I am not a big fan of NHB and I hear that a striker, either boxer or traditional Karate practitioner has never won one of these matches. Is this true? If it is, why do you think this is so? (Maybe I should post this in a different thread?)
Subject: RE: INFO
From: RicksonBJJ
Date: 29-Aug-00 | 06:28 PM
Awesome. Thanks man.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: menapace
Date: 30-Aug-00 | 02:37 PM
I've used this technique a couple of times as a variation to the jab when I was working on the door. Since we really weren't allowed to pummel people at the majority of the clubs I worked we had to find ways to stun them without leaving residual damage, and then get 2 or 3 guys to drag them out. What I would do is throw a jab but with my hand open in a claw like position. This would do two things: It would catch him either on the chin or nose and jerk his head back stunning him for a few seconds, and it almost always resulted in one of my fingers poking him in the eye, causing him to cover up. Then we would all grab hold of him and I would listen to him call my mother many colorful names.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 30-Aug-00 | 04:18 PM
Slick, RicksonBJJ:
Thanks, guys. Glad you like my posts.
filipe123:
Point 1. What about varying the head position every once in a while to present a different target? Will you elaborate on this point, please? I'm not sure if you're refering to the striker or strikee. I certainly am a proponent of good head movement, but not wasted head movement (and movement in general) where a guy's squirelling all over and the opponent isn't even in striking range! That's either showboating or amateurish, neither of which I find useful.
Point 2. I think there are four basic reasons boxers/strikers haven't done well.
A. Base. Good punches/kicks require a good base. A grappler either takes you down or makes it difficult to establish one's base for punching.
B. Range. Grapplers either stay on the outside (striking is impossible) or clinch, making striking with leverage much more difficult.
C. Cluelessness. Pure strikers are clueless in the grappling range, making for fairly easy pickens' for a good submission grappler.
D. Level of athelete. The very top grapplers are in the NHB game, while the low rung of the ladder strikers compete. Why? $$$$$!!!!!
menapace:
Brutal technique! Is it your opinion that the Jab could be an effective tool against a grappler?
Also, consider this technique: if a guy shoots while your jabbing, convert the forarm to a pole, moving the arm to a right angle. Your right hand grabs your left wrist for power. While the grappler continues to try to get ahold of you, push him away with your left forarm in his neck.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: menapace
Date: 30-Aug-00 | 07:21 PM
Rastas, most of my training is for defense in the street where I have most of my experience. I've done a lot of NHB for recreation and improving my technique and such, but I would not say it is my main focus. Having said that, if I ever find myself in a streetfight where I'm squared up with a grappler while we are circling each other, preparing to fight, I know I did something VERY wrong to be in that position to begin with. I don't care what anyone says, you NEVER want to mutually agree to fight anyone in a streetfight. Anyone can be hit with a lucky punch or be taken down by a gorilla of a wrestler. I have, however, found myself in clinch situations with "grappler" guys(I think they were, I didn't really stop to ask them) and found that by grinding my thumb into the hollow spot behind their ear caused them to release their grip some and allow me to strike. But, yes, to make a long story short(too late) I think if you had a hard, stiff, jab, you should utilize it in NHB. If anything, it will give your opponent something to think about while the right hand is ready to take his head off. And one more thing, the strike I was referring to in my previous post was not from a ready position, but from a submissive, "whoa, take it easy" position. I find most strikes land a hell of a lot easier that way.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 30-Aug-00 | 07:33 PM
menapace:
I'm a firm believer of not being in the wrong place at the wrong time and staying/walking the hell away from street fights whenever possible. There's no glory there, only shortsightedness. Jails, weapons, the friend you didn't see, the pissed off guy you kicked ass on who finds you a week later, this time your back's too him and he has a knife, gun...all this stuff is cold reality.
That being said, it's good to know how to protect yourself if the occasional boor/idiot/drunken fool just won't leave you alone! You as a bouncer, of course, would have to deal with these types for a living.
The only techniques I've studied are sport techniques. Of course, there is a huge carry-over, but stuff like sticking your finger behind a guy's ear I probably wouldn't even think of!
I remember my boxing trainer, Archie Grant, said "If a guy's in your face, always have your guard up." He demonstrated by putting up his hands in the ready position with hands open, as if he were explaining himself with his hands.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: menapace
Date: 30-Aug-00 | 08:04 PM
Rastas, I couldn't have said it better. It's obvious you know what you're talking about as opposed to some testosterone enhanced, wanna-be tough guy who has no clue as to how terrifying real violence can be. And your statement about sport fighting for dealing with the average drunk, tough guy etc. is right on the money. We all need a foundation and from there we can pick and choose all the nasty little moves we want to add. I mean if you were to teach nasty tricks like eye strikes, groin strikes and such to two seperate guys, and one of those guys had a foundation in a sport like wrestling or boxing, well, hell, give me the boxer\wrestler any day. They already have the timing, dexterity, and ability to make ANY technique work for them. It always makes me laugh when I hear guys talk about jiu-jitsu guys or kickboxers etc. and they say, "Gracie? I'd just gouge his eyes when he grabbed hold of me." Or, "A boxer? I'd just take out his knee." What these need to be enlightened people don't realize is that these tricks are at these fighters disposal as well, and they are probably 100% more adept at pulling them off than joe blow. My claw hand jab couldn't have been effective without all the years of boxing\kickboxing I had drilling a regular jab. So as I said before, it's nice to see someone produce such enlightening posts such as yourself. Keep them coming!
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 31-Aug-00 | 03:14 AM
manapace: Thanks for the kudos on me, but I hope I don't come off on these boards as a tuff guy, or "I know better." I have experience in fighting techniques (boxing and BJJ in particular) and like to share what I've learned and learn from others like yourself. I know that much of what I write is valuable, not because I am so knowledgeable or tuff; but, rather, because the people from whom I learned ARE. I know what bloody noses are, I know what it feels like to have a swelling eye, which bounces of it's own accord while I move - that odd feeling like a tight, little balloon filled with blood is moving up and down and pinching my vision. I know what it's like to be dropped, I know what it's like to drop people. I know what it's like to be submitted, I know what it's like to submit people. It's all part of testing yourself and getting to the next plateau. I know what was useful to me, and try to share it on this forum; not because I could kick the ass of those who listen to me. Rather, I shore up my lessons for my posts to make a difference in my readers eyes, that maybe one point I write will help someone at the moment it counts - training, sparring, fighting. The last "fight" I was in, 12 years ago was like this: at a club, my friend and I were playing pool. I was shooting the breeze with a lady, drinking and shooting a game. This guy (the rooster type, who expects all attention and deference to fall on him...just because he's him) tells the girl, "We're leaving, so you can tell your friend bye." He said it in an aggressive, dismissive and arrogant way. I remember really wanting to fight him (beer in me, girl next to me...you know the score). I said to her, "I could drop that guy with one right cross." "What did you say, Scotty?" the guy said. "OK, let's go outside", he said. He and his several friends left, and I started to follow. My friend, Bob, told me, "Dude, let's just go. You're drunk. Let's not spoil a good night." "F#ck him", I said, and sauntered outside
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 31-Aug-00 | 03:15 AM
I was around ten feet from him, a crowd had gathered and I was looking at this guy. He looked in very good shape, cocky as hell, a big self-sated smirk on his face, his hands at his sides, his body positioned to be ready for a fight. This weird feeling overcame me. Call it good sense, call it...whatever. I just saw what was about to happen as stupid. My ego, a girl I didn't know at all (Saying, "Stop it guys! This is ridiculous"), about five of his friends next to me, I don't even know where my friend was. He said, "Don't tell me you're a pussy. Come on, Scotty...knock me out." I just looked at him...tight, his hands down, smirking, ready for action. He was obiously athletic, it good shape and wanting to scrap. I walked right up to him, tight in punching range and said (hands up to talk ;-) ) "I'm sorry, man. I blew my mouth off and said things I shouldn't. Let's go in and have a beer on me." "Oh...Scotty's a pussy now!!!" His friends were laughing and encouraging him to fight. He just started throwing punches. I backed up, slipping each punch, slightly off balance because of all the beers, when I felt myself slam against a guy who bear hugged me, pinning my arms at my sides. The guy was screaming, "It's over." Then, my dear competitor seeing me with my arms pinned threw his best right at my face, from which I turned my head and took the punch off my forhead. The guy who held me was a bouncer who then screamed, "You fucking pussy... hit this guy when he can't defend himself! OK, take him on now!" He releases me, and the guy walked away with his friends (about five). The two bouncers told me not to go to my car now, because they might be waiting for me. My friend, now appearing, thought that suggestion would be a good idea. Somehow, I believed that this was it. The guy knew he had proven himself the pussy, and he wouldn't do anything more.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 31-Aug-00 | 03:18 AM
"Thanks", I said, "but I've got to go home now." They would walk my friend and me to my car, but I assured him it wouldn't be necessary. On the way there, I could still see the guys across the street. After a block their cackling subsided to, "OK, Scotty, I guess you want a free shot on me. Here..take it." The guy was walking across the street with his chin up and hands down. He got in my face begging me to hit him. I put my arm around him and said, "You were an asshole for hitting me, but I'm not going to hit you." He started begging me...really begging me to punch him! "No, you deserve a good hit man. Just hit me." This macho, drunken idiocy was playing itself out. His friends started apologizing to me, saying "That's cool. He's a really great guy, he's not usually like this." Their car was on the street, my friend's underground. As we went into the underground space, I heard the guy yell, "I let you off easy, Scotty! Let's go at it now!" I could hear his friends saying stuff like, "Shut the fuck up and get in". That...that weird experience was my last recollection of a street fight. They are meaningless, they are for nothing. They happen out of no where, to nowhere they go. Random encounters of violence, gunshots in alleys and sirens in the distance, coming closer. I've known young men who are now dead. That friend of mine nine years ago committed suicide because his fantastic business failed and his wife left him. What I learned most that night was how senseless real violence is, how much it disgusts me. I thought of things that happened before that day, things that could have happened before that day...and I guess in some ways I grew up that day. It's better to build people up and stand for something profound, then squander energy because of an unchecked ego, no control - others with their hands on your internal thermostat, dictating if you are happy or angry or sad. No control, no direction, no reason...just animal angst. Not for me.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: felipe123
Date: 31-Aug-00 | 11:24 AM
Rastus: Point 1. I'm really very much an amateur here so please bear with me. I was trying to say that if you deliver a blow and your head is always in the same position, it could present a predictable target.
Point 2. How would you approach a grappler from a striker's perspective?
Thanks for your response.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 31-Aug-00 | 12:40 PM
felipe:
It's never good to be predictable.
European boxers are sometimes criticized for being too stiff and upright.
Do what's comfortable, but don't be stiff. Use intelligent head movement.
Ask yourself this: what's the most difficult, problematic head movement you can imagine your OPPONENT presenting you?
Then use that head movement on your opponent!!! LOL.
Also, think in terms of slipping punches... you can block a punch, but that gives your opponent the luxury of hitting SOME part of you. The most exhausting, frustrating, disheartening punch thrown by your opponent is the punch of his you slip, he punches air and is countered.
Trust me on that one...
Subject: RE: INFO
From: sundevil
Date: 31-Aug-00 | 04:20 PM
Great thread, Rastus. This should be archived.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 31-Aug-00 | 05:28 PM
Thanks, sundevil...
Subject: RE: INFO
From: striker18
Date: 31-Aug-00 | 10:54 PM
Rastus brings up a good point about European boxers, and as a matter of fact a boxer that works out with me just came over from Hungary. This guy is your typical European style boxer, all of the classic traits of a Euro boxer. He has a badass overhand right and a good jab, but not much of a hook. He also has almost no head movement, which sets him up as a predictable target. As my coach says, every time you move your head your opponent has to spend time in his mind setting everything back up. But if you leave your head in one particular spot, then you are eventually going to get pegged.
Rastus is also right on regarding imagining what would be hard for you to deal with, and then adopting that style. That is exactly what I have been taught, because it is correct. I think everyone should make it a special point to stop and read all of the posts by Rastus, he knows what he is talking about.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 01-Sep-00 | 01:13 AM
Striker18:
Thanks for the kudos. It means alot to know that people out there are reading posts carefully and benefiting from them.
Another note on the jab - A classic no-no is to lower the right hand when you jab. Imagine shooting the jab in and keeping that right hand locked to your jaw. Don't drop it when you jab! A crafty opponent will time you and set you up for a left hook to exploit the dropped right hand.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: ping pong
Date: 01-Sep-00 | 09:10 AM
Good post Rastus, you need to make your next post Top 10 reasons to uppercut to many amateurs forget to uppercut which is a very powerful punch.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: striker18
Date: 01-Sep-00 | 11:35 AM
Yes Rastus, good point about keeping your right hand up. I seem to have the habit of dropping my left hand whenever I throw an overhand right, it is a similar principle.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: 655321
Date: 01-Sep-00 | 01:18 PM
I would love to see posts like this one on ALL the facets of boxing! Can anyone help? Thanks!
Subject: RE: INFO
From: menapace
Date: 01-Sep-00 | 02:41 PM
Rastas, that was an impressive post to say the least. And let me assure you, in no way do you come across as a 'tuff' guy. Quite the contrary in fact. If you read my previous post when I stated it seemed as though you knew what you were talking about, I meant that you had a good head on your shoulders and seemed like a very confident and humble man. "Humility is the mark of greatness"(I forget who said it). It's just a shame that there aren't more people like you in the arts, or the world for that matter. People with experience and ability, yet are intelligent and humble enough to either turn the other cheek or weigh the consequences of their actions BEFORE anyhting dire happens. Take care.
Subject: RE: INFO
From: felipe123
Date: 01-Sep-00 | 03:14 PM
Rastus: Not sure what you meant by the "lower rung of the ladder strikers competing in NHB". Are you saying that the world class strikers go into boxing? This is the only other competitive sport I can think of where strikers would earn more money than in NHB. Do full contact Karate fighters earn more than NHB fighters? I don't think so. From my perspective I would have to disagree with you on this one. Did I misunderstand or miss something?
Subject: RE: INFO
From: Rastus
Date: 01-Sep-00 | 07:20 PM
felipe 123
I simply meant that the best strikers don't compete in NHB, boxing or kickboxing. That's a fact.
menapace:
Thanks again for the kind words. After re-reading what I wrote, it sounds as if I were defending myself, rather than just going over my last brush with real world violence. I didn't mean it that way, but oh well!!!
ping pong, 655321:
I'll put together some thoughts on the uppercut later tonight. I hope on these technique posts Mr. Buckley and Mr. Torres would give us their valuable insights too. Mr. Torres corrected me on the hand positioning of the inside left hook; that it is more "palm up" than 45 degrees from vertical. A detail, but a valuable one. Why not practice with all the "details" right? Alot of missed details result in a sloppy fighter. Attention to details produce sharp, honed, professional fighters.
If someone's willing to spend hours and hours perfecting details of a golf swing, how much more should a fighter spend perfecting the details of his game? The golfer screws up, ehhhh... he'll make it up on the next hole. The boxer screws up, he could get clobbered!
Make sure the raft's air-tight before setting her down into the river...
Subject:RE: INFO
From:boxingSHK
Date: 02-Sep-00 | 02:24 PM
I think the jab definitely has stopping power. It'd probably be one of the better punches to throw in NHB, because I think by the time you get a right hand off, you're probably going to be taken down. If you put a 3 to 5 oz. glove on a heavyweight with a good jab, like Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, or any other heavyweight for that matter, and get hit with a good solid jab coming in, I think it could definitely stop someone.
NOTE: Moving my old archives over to my new site - posted 2/3/2013 as of 9/1/2000 - from http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/rastusjab.html.
Other Rastus articles posted:
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